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Site Rules & Design Submission Guidelines (Last Updated: 25 May 2008)

(391 posts)
  • Started 4 years ago by LobsterMan
  • Latest reply from jelontok

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  1. Jeremy
    Member

    Posted By: Sean@JeremyD: As Pete pointed out, the original issue was a paid/sponsored link that couldn't be removed. To the best of my knowledge, this was the first time this has ever happened... so yes, it opened the door for the conversation that's going on now...
    yeah and that issue has been taken care of. now some people want to limit the # to 2, based on the opinion that there will be spam and an abuse of the newly approved sponsored links. But I don't see why there would be an increase in spam at all. Before all of this was brought to attention, we had no issue with people spamming the hell out of templates with unlimited sponsored links. So there's no reason to think now, since other than it being brought to attention, nothing has been changed. Yes, now they're legal, but before this they were just as legal because there was no rule against them.
    Posted 3 years ago #
  2. null
    Member

    Posted By: JeremyDSo there's no reason to think now
    But that's my whole point Jeremy, there is a reason to think now about the number of links. Eventually it(dumb designs with made with lots of links) will become become a problem and make our site look spammy and trashy.... let me repeat, it will happen eventually if nothing is put in place. This matter has nothing to do with whether they can be removed or not, it's about aesthetics, and how it makes OD look. There is no reason to have unlimited number of links - there are very good reasons to limit the number and in my opinion 2 is plenty for this type of site. A stitch in time now will save nine later
    Posted 3 years ago #
  3. Ainslie
    Moderator

    Just because nobody ever complained, does not mean that it was right or than nobody cared about the issue. So it is quite a valid to want to discuss the number of sponsored links that can be included in a template. There are a large number who would rather see no links at all and they will not go away. There will even be a group that find the authors links too much!
    Posted 3 years ago #
  4. icyone
    Member

    sponsored links are evil :devil:
    Posted 3 years ago #
  5. greg
    Member

    i would just like to add this.. some of the arguments against sponsored links involve what this site will turn into - trashy templates thrown together, loaded with dozens of links, being submitted on a constant basis. a) the adding of nofollow to preview links means that any 'link farm' templates won't affect opendesigns, nor will any of the sponsored links get any pagerank advantages from opendesigns b) anyone who downloads one of these templates is likely to make removing all of the sponsored links their first priority, regardless of whether the template license permits them to do so. so the overall benefit of spamming this site with 'link farm' templates = 0. therefore it likely isn't going to be done.
    Posted 3 years ago #
  6. Ainslie
    Moderator

    When you look in the shop window and find the shop is full of cheap and nasty rubbish do you buy from it, or walk down the street to a shop you know and trust to sell you good quality items?
    Posted 3 years ago #
  7. greg
    Member

    Posted By: ainslieWhen you look in the shop window and find the shop is full of cheap and nasty rubbish do you buy from it, or walk down the street to a shop you know and trust to sell you good quality items?
    that is a matter of rejecting designs that look 'cheap and nasty', not of allowing or disallowing sponsored links.
    Posted 3 years ago #
  8. Rob
    Member

    Just a thought that nobody seems to have mentioned so far (admittedly i've only been skimming since the discussion first broke), but since this has all come about due to sponsored links being put into templates, could we not continue to support designers by matching url's within the pages to the designers url in their account profile and not no following that particular link, that way designers will still benefit from the good pagerank of OD, which at the end of the day is fair enough considering OD is only getting that pagerank due to the designers templates being there in the first place. In simple form, can be have an 'if statement' when changing the href's which queries if the link matches the users homepage in the database and if it does, do not put a 'nofollow' on.
    Posted 3 years ago #
  9. how about a designer is only allowed to submit a certain munber of sponcored links each month or something?
    Posted 3 years ago #
  10. Christopher
    Moderator

    Posted By: RobIn simple form, can be have an 'if statement' when changing the href's which queries if the link matches the users homepage in the database and if it does, do not put a 'nofollow' on.
    There is a problem with this approach though, as I could easily put a sponsored link in my templates and then before I submit one of them, change my profile URL to the URL of the sponsored link. Then upload the template, the script parses it, see's my profile page and the link, doesn't add no follow. Then go back and change my profile page URL. Then repeat with each other template. Admittedly I wouldn't be getting any direct benefit of having my own website in the template previews, but overall not only would I have my link on my profile page, I would also have a followable sponsored link in each of my templates. One link may not be much I know, but that's just one of many ways I can think of to bypass it (and no, I'm not going to give out more ways which could be exploited).
    Posted 3 years ago #
  11. Rob
    Member

    Sorry I was under the impression that the adding of nofollow links would be done in php as the frame loaded, basically running through it finding the href's and adding a nofollow to it, which would make it easier to deal with it, but if it's being done once upon upload then yes I can see the problem and we'd have to return to looking at some sort of report feature. The only other thing I would add, would be possibly having the designers link in the top frame with the download link etc, with follow. Sorry to try and change things again just as you seem to be getting things sorted, but I really feel it's only a fair trade for designers to bump up OD's popularity with top quality designs and in return OD bump up designers with top quality link backs. Obviously again this can be abused by putting a sponsored url into your account url, but you would only be able to do this once and unless people are seriously considering that people on here would be unscrupulous enough to sell that single link for bags of cash, based on the fact that it would be appearing on a number (considering they design alot) of high rank pages, then I don't think it would really be a problem.
    Posted 3 years ago #
  12. Trin
    Member

    Posted By: greg
    Posted By: ainslie When you look in the shop window and find the shop is full of cheap and nasty rubbish do you buy from it, or walk down the street to a shop you know and trust to sell you good quality items?
    that is a matter of rejecting designs that look 'cheap and nasty', not of allowing or disallowing sponsored links.
    The point is that the allowing of sponsored links is likely to attract 'cheap and nasty rubbish'. Time will tell.
    Posted 3 years ago #
  13. fernbap
    Member

    As we are talking about commerce, why don't those that like sponsored links make a COMMERCIAL website, where you can place your templates with as many links as you want. You share the expenses, and use that website for commercial transactions, because that's what sponsored links are all about. Do you know what the problem would be? Your website would look like many other websites made with that purpose in mind, and would never give you the return OD does. And, of course, would be quickly spammed with trashy templates. Then you would restrict the acceptance of the templates based on quality and lose your submitters, because quality would not be an important factor in a commercial website.
    Posted 3 years ago #
  14. icyone
    Member

    Posted By: fernbapAs we are talking about commerce, why don't those that like sponsored links make a COMMERCIAL website, where you can place your templates with as many links as you want
    That was what Sean said, do however you want on your own site...sort of...
    Posted 3 years ago #
  15. greg
    Member

    Posted By: Trin
    Posted By: greg
    Posted By: ainslie When you look in the shop window and find the shop is full of cheap and nasty rubbish do you buy from it, or walk down the street to a shop you know and trust to sell you good quality items?
    that is a matter of rejecting designs that look 'cheap and nasty', not of allowing or disallowing sponsored links.
    The point is that the allowing of sponsored links is likely to attract 'cheap and nasty rubbish'. Time will tell.
    hence my original comment:
    Posted By: gregi would just like to add this.. some of the arguments against sponsored links involve what this site will turn into - trashy templates thrown together, loaded with dozens of links, being submitted on a constant basis. a) the adding of nofollow to preview links means that any 'link farm' templates won't affect opendesigns, nor will any of the sponsored links get any pagerank advantages from opendesigns b) anyone who downloads one of these templates is likely to make removing all of the sponsored links their first priority, regardless of whether the template license permits them to do so. so the overall benefit of spamming this site with 'link farm' templates = 0. therefore it likely isn't going to be done.
    if trashy templates are going to be submitted, it wont be because of sponsored links given the new nofollow system.
    Posted 3 years ago #
  16. JJenZz
    Member

    Posted By: fernbapDo you know what the problem would be? Your website would look like many other websites made with that purpose in mind, and would never give you the return OD does.
    I think you are making too many assumptions there. I recently launched a commercial website to sell templates and since then the amount of work requests I have had to my freelance website has increased from 2 emails a week to nearly one email a day requesting quotes. It gives good return and does not look like trash. And yes, I have other designers submitting templates there but I only allow designs that I think look good. This site wouldn't look like trash because of the links, it would look like trash because of the rubbish designs submitted. A design doesn't have to be rubbish to hold sponsored links and how rubbish a design is, is all based on personal opinion anyway.
    Posted 3 years ago #
  17. fernbap
    Member

    A design doesn't have to be rubbish to hold sponsored links and how rubbish a design is, is all based on personal opinion anyway.
    I think you are missing the point. If sponsored links were not allowed, people who make rubbish templates just to add sponsored links wouldn't care to submit at all. They would rather submit to your website. I would rather see here poor templates submitted by well meaning but not talented amateurs than rubbish made by people who know how to do better.
    Posted 3 years ago #
  18. JJenZz
    Member

    Posted By: fernbapThey would rather submit to your website.
    lol, they could try... they wouldn't get anywhere though. And I am not missing the point at all, I think you are. As greg has already said, with the rel="nofollow" in place people who submit rubbish templates purely for sponsored links sake are less likely to now, because they wouldn't gain anything from it. I see a heck load of what i'd class as 'rubbish' templates on here without sponsored links at all so it's not just sponsored links making people submit rubbish here. And just because someone adds a sponsored link does not mean they are not 'well meaning'. They are still providing for the community just like everyone else at the end of the day and they still get downloaded. So obviously their designs suit some people's tastes. As I said, it's all a matter of opinion.
    Posted 3 years ago #
  19. fernbap
    Member

    And just because someone adds a sponsored link does not mean they are not 'well meaning'. They are still providing for the community just like everyone else
    Let's look at this: a designer "provides" a template with sponsored links. He was payed to make it, so the template is no longer his, it belongs to the sponsor. Hence, the designer adds the sponsored link. What about the link to his own website? That means 2 owners of the same template: the sponsor and the designer. So, you issue a CC license claiming the ownership of the template by 2 different people. Hmmm.... Open Source?
    Posted 3 years ago #
  20. Gnome
    Moderator

    fernbap: they are still giving away potentially high-quality templates at the cost of only one link (to the author). Right now, it isn't possible to require that the sponsored links stay.
    Posted 3 years ago #
  21. fernbap
    Member

    Yea, but the link should be to the author or to the sponsor? Or is it legitimate to keep selling a product over and over and retaining its possession at the same time?
    Posted 3 years ago #
  22. Gnome
    Moderator

    fernbap: the author retains ownrship, but simply puts a link in the template to the sponsor.
    Posted 3 years ago #
  23. Ainslie
    Moderator

    Posted By: JJenZzI see a heck load of what i'd class as 'rubbish' templates on here without sponsored links at all so it's not just sponsored links making people submit rubbish here.
    :shocked: Totally unbelievable!
    Posted 3 years ago #
  24. Mike Weiss
    Member

    Posted By: ainslie
    Posted By: JJenZz I see a heck load of what i'd class as 'rubbish' templates on here without sponsored links at all so it's not just sponsored links making people submit rubbish here.
    shocked Totally unbelievable!
    I agree with Jen. shocked One of the reasons that I think OSWD was better than OWD and OD is because of the restraint FS put on accepting designs. I think accepting designs that are more unique may limit the amount of community members and users... but will in the end spur a better community of people who are wonderful designers (or at least aspire to be wonderful designers). Some of the contributors to the template system are good designers, if design only includes 3 column blogs. I feel that it's important to note that if you go to a commercial web template website, they may OFFER blog style templates, but they aren't the main feature. If people would put more pride into what they submit, then I think we would all have a better experience.
    Posted 3 years ago #
  25. fernbap
    Member

    If people would put more pride into what they submit, then I think we would all have a better experience.
    Exactly. And putting pride in your work is doing your best. Not just do "enough for a free job". "Enough" is a commercial concept, pride has nothing to do with commerce.
    Posted 3 years ago #
  26. Ainslie
    Moderator

    We need to nurture new talent however bad you may think it is, not destroy it. I'm afraid this attitude just goes to show how conceited some of this community has become. Dismissing the "hobbyist" as not important and just a waste of time. I not even going to discuss this any more. If you are not ashamed of yourself then you really have lost the plot. I'm beginning to think this thread should be closed. It really isn't helping anybody's cause. Unfortunately I can't as it was started by an Admin.
    Posted 3 years ago #
  27. Mike Weiss
    Member

    ainslie... I'm not trying to crush "hobbyist", I'm trying to crush the people that continue to put out the same crap. People who truly enjoy design get better with time. I think you are simply looking at our statements from a different view than us. Jen and I believe in a little bit of exclusivity, and you believe in 100% acceptance. The fact that you think we should be ashamed of ourselves leads me to believe that you don't fully understand where we are coming from. We really aren't trying to be rude or hateful or anything. Just stating that a little bit of design discretion isn't a bad thing, especially when it favors community members (As it inherently would). I doubt that this community would prefer design discretion because it is kind of against the whole "Open Designs" concept. If this were called "Awesome Free Templates" it would be REQUIRED that the designs be "Awesome". I don't know how you feel but, although I have never met anyone on this board, I consider you all to be passionate about this field... and would suggest anyone here to one of my clients. I don't profess to be better than thou or anything. I am willing to bet that I am somewhere in the lower half of good designers. I am just saying that things ran differently over at OSWD and they worked fine there until the labor got to be too much for FS and he gave up without handing it over to someone else. The fact that anyone is reading this (8 pages in on a post that really isn't meant to have replies)... means that they are at least passionate about website design, and thus, I consider them a good designer.
    Posted 3 years ago #
  28. JJenZz
    Member

    None of us have suggested destroying new talent or suggested dismissing the hobbyist... woah there! lol I am just confused as to why people keep saying rubbish designs will flood into this site if we allow sponsored links, when truth be told, they already exist here and a lot of them don't have sponsored links at all. It was not a stab at hobbyists/freelancers/anyone or a suggestion to get rid of anything... I'm just saying we can't really moan about rubbish designs being submitted as it will happen no matter what and there is always a market for a design no matter how good/bad it is... someone, somewhere will like it. Unless this community adds some kind of approval status based on how good the design is then trashy designs will be submitted. End of. And no, i'm not saying something like that should be implemented. I do think it would encourage people to try harder if there was some kind of system like that though, and it would help better hobbyists/freelancers skills. It hurts to hear the truth but thats what makes people progress. I have been told in the past that what I've created is rubbish so many times (and actually posted stuff for critisism knowing it'd get torn to shreds) but it only helped better my skills and motivated me to improve. That isn't something I could ever see happening here though... unfortunately. I am not ashamed of myself and totally agree with Mike.
    Posted 3 years ago #
  29. null
    Member

    Just thought i'd post this article re sponsored links - you could just substitute "Wordpress" for "OD website" http://weblogtoolscollection.com/archives/2007/04/12/on-sponsored-themes/
    Posted 3 years ago #
  30. Ainslie
    Moderator

    I admire your tenacity but I think the other side won.
    Posted 3 years ago #

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