Open Designs

Open Designs Forum » Site Specific

1. Sean
   Founding Member

   Ok, as of this post, the Kontera ad system has been running for exactly 30 days and as promised, it's time for a vote if the ad system stays or goes. Here is how the voting will work: Send me a message with your OD user name and the subject 'Kontera Vote' saying either Yes or No that you want the Kontera ads to stay. If you vote Yes, that's a vote for them staying. If you vote No, that's a vote for them to be removed. This vote will be open for 5 days to make sure everyone gets a vote in. One vote per member/user. Moderators are allowed to vote as well. After 5 days, the totals will be added up, then posted with the results. We're doing the vote this way since it worked out well for voting on forum moderators and it's semi anonymous. Again, send me a message with your OD user name and the subject 'Kontera Vote' saying either Yes or No that you want the Kontera ads to stay. I am filtering the messages on this vote, so make sure you follow the instructions exactly if you want your vote to count. Things to consider, the Kontera Ad system has been earning more on a daily average then Google Ad Sense but this isn't just about money for the site. Some people have expressed a concern for user experience and some have said the ad system wasn't a problem for user experience. When considering your vote, take these things into consideration. Please do not comment on this thread with your vote or anything else concerning the ad system. There has been 30 days for you to express your likes and dislikes with it. Lets keep this thread clean and once the 5 days is up, I will comment with the results... user names and specific votes will be kept private. I will only post the totals for Yes and for No. If for some reason there is a tie... hehe... that would be crazy... but if it happens, we'll figure something out... maybe a moderator and admin master vote. We will cross that bridge if we come to it.

   Posted 4 years ago #

2. yugnats
   Member

   i dont get it, why not use an open poll here on this post?

   Posted 4 years ago #

3. Sean
   Founding Member

   The poll extension isn't playing nice and to not waste any time with delays trying to figure it out, this method is in place, plus I also explained why this method was picked for the vote since it worked so well for picking moderators. Thanks for your support moderator yugnats :bakie:

   Posted 4 years ago #

4. yugnats
   Member

   by "explaination" do you mean:

   We're doing the vote this way since it worked out well for voting on forum moderators and it's semi anonymous.

   that doesn't make sense to me to be honest. this whole kontera thing sure doesn't have a 'community feeling' to it for me anyhow...and why use the contact form on your site? is the internal mail system not playing nice as well?

   Posted 4 years ago #

5. Sean
   Founding Member

   yugnats, I nicely asked to keep this thread comment free. a simple request. Yes, the OD internal email system seems to be acting up. I am actually looking into that. I originally had the contact form in the link, so to keep things moving a long, I am using my contact form. So far 20 votes have come in without issues or complaints on the voting method but no vote from you yet yugnats ;)

   Posted 4 years ago #

6. Sean
   Founding Member

   P.S. The comments on this thread will be closed in a moment, so if you have anything else to say about this, since you are a moderator, please contact me off forum to discuss more. Thanks.

   Posted 4 years ago #

7. yugnats
   Member

   Posted By: seanroxyugnats, I nicely asked to keep this thread comment free. a simple request.

   no sean, you asked not to comment about the ad system or how you voted- i simply commented on how the vote was being run. geez, sorry for speaking my mind.

   Posted By: seanroxSo far 20 votes have come in without issues but no vote from you yet yugnats ;)

   thats right and you wont be receiving one from me as i dont agree with the way this voting is taking place- hence my comments.

   Posted 4 years ago #

8. Sean
   Founding Member

   check your email (gmail account) yugnats. thanks.

   Posted 4 years ago #

9. yugnats
   Member

   sean, i've spoke my piece and you know my opinion so i dont need to contact you 'off forum'.

   Posted 4 years ago #

10. Sean
    Founding Member

    actually stan, it would be nice if you did contact me off forum. you are a moderator and some things don't need to be out like this... an admin and a moderator bickering... yeah, that's professional and adult :bakie:

    Posted 4 years ago #

11. yugnats
    Member

    well, i have i replied to your email and i dont think my mod status really has anything to do with it- moderator or not i dont agree with the voting system, sorry. and i'll reinterate what i said in my email: maybe these sorts of 'bickering incidents' could be avoided if the mods were consulted more. i mean a few weeks ago you were going to leave here and we are always hearing about how much time and work you admins have put into this site yet there are 9 or 10 mods here and (to my knowledge) none of us have been consulted on anything that happens around here that affects the whole community. really, why bother having mods if the admins are making all of the decisions?

    Posted 4 years ago #

12. yugnats
    Member

    ok, now there are posts disappearing here- what gives sean?

    Posted 4 years ago #

13. null
    Member

    Hi Sean, I thought for a better judgment by all of us to be made we were going to be given some stats as to how exactly both ad systems have performed ie... money earned per whatever and even traffic stats for the past thirty days compared with the previous 30 days without it, or is this not what you want us to consider? Did you just want us to comment on the aesthetics of it? Pete

    Posted 4 years ago #

14. Gnome
    Moderator

    Pete: Sean said that it makes more money than Adsense. I would suspect that that is all the information that we are going to get. The money isn't important. What matters is whether people think it should stay or not.

    Posted 4 years ago #

15. Sean
    Founding Member

    @perthmetro: As gnome pointed out from my post I had said:

    Things to consider, the Kontera Ad system has been earning more on a daily average then Google Ad Sense but this isn't just about money for the site. Some people have expressed a concern for user experience and some have said the ad system wasn't a problem for user experience. When considering your vote, take these things into consideration.

    It was already discussed that if the Kontera ad system made more or less money then Google Ads Sense, we wanted to try and keep user/member experience on the site the top consideration if it stays or goes. Once the voting is done and a decision is made, I will post the results and also what Kontera has made to date verses the Google ads. Keep in mind Google ads have been running 3-4 months now and Kontera only 30 days but as I said, on a daily average, Kontera is earning a lot more. Keep those votes coming in. Thanks for your support.

    Posted 4 years ago #

16. null
    Member

    Gnome, I respect your belief that "The money isn't important". I think it's important to weigh up the economic benefits in tandem with the aesthetics. So in that respect I think it is important how much both ad systems earn. As it is fairly clear from the previous discussions that the Kontera system is less aesthetic than google. I'd rather not have the Kontera if the returns weren't 'worth it'. What's worth it? let the users decide and post the comparative amounts. Saying that the Kontera made more than Google is useless, it's like saying how long is a piece of string. If Kontera made 3% more than google then I'd question it's usefulness. If it made 20% more I question removing it. But to say The money isn't important, what matters is whether people think it should stay or not is a catch 22, 1. people matter how much it is making 2. what matters is up to the people 1 + 2 = how much it is making matters Cheers Pete

    Posted 4 years ago #

17. refueled
    Member

    I'm going against Sean's request not to post, but, perthmetro: leave it alone. It's already been discussed. Just vote.

    Posted 4 years ago #

18. Sean
    Founding Member

    @perthmetro: You need to read everything I say as I gave an answer. I said:

    Once the voting is done and a decision is made, I will post the results and also what Kontera has made to date verses the Google ads.

    Did you catch that? I said that I would post what Kontera has made to date verses the Google ads. Votes need to be based on user experience not how much money something makes or doesn't make. If something makes a ton of money but people don't like it visually or in usability, the site won't keep members/users. This was already discussed. As for previous amounts of what Google and Kontera have made, I also posted that in the previous thread. Here are your options... vote or don't vote but read everything I say before you jump to conclusions. I'm usually pretty detailed in what I write.

    Posted 4 years ago #

19. LobsterMan
    Key Master

    Pete: As Sean pointed out, he mentioned the average amount we get per click. Even though this is a community site, it is probably not best to post exact numbers publicly where anyone on the web can see them. We do have a system of Admins, who run the place, and Moderators, who (hopefully) make sure the admins are doing there job. We bring almost everything to public vote, because this is a community site, and every member can make a difference. Having said all that, not all information can be displayed publicly. Now, as you know, the site staff works very hard on making OD the great place it is. Nobody is getting payed, and we all have lives and other things to do with them. So, I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but sometimes comments like yours can really be a pain in the ass. Bakies to all :bakie: And hopefully the end of this discussion.

    Posted 4 years ago #

20. yugnats
    Member

    i'm commenting here because refueled's comment here just made me realize something that i didn't realize during the 30-day kontera trial and i dont think anyone else has brought it up (i apologize if someone already did): if you happen to quote a comment in this forum that has a kontera ad in it you get a pile of raw html in the quote which makes it tougher to modify the quote (as sometimes you dont want to quote the whole comment). try quoting a post that has a kontera ad and you'll see what i mean.

    Posted 4 years ago #

21. Sean
    Founding Member

    @yugnats: well then that gives moderators something to edit on the forums :tongue: I've actually put in a call to Kontera to suggest a few fixes for their code...

    Posted 4 years ago #

22. Sean
    Founding Member

    Ok, it's been 5 days since I started the voting. So far 22 people have voted. I know we have a lot more members then 22. I'm going to let the voting process go for another couple of hours to see if anyone else casts a vote, then let everyone know the results. If you still need to get your vote in, here's how to do it: Send me a message with your OD user name and the subject 'Kontera Vote' saying either Yes or No that you want the Kontera ads to stay. If you vote Yes, that's a vote for them staying. If you vote No, that's a vote for them to be removed.

    Posted 4 years ago #

23. null
    Member

    Posted By: seanSo far 22 people have voted. I know we have a lot more members then 22.

    Do you think if we had the right information to base our decisions on then that might make us more confident that our decision is meaningful?

    Posted 4 years ago #

24. Sean
    Founding Member

    @perthmetro: Plenty of information was given, in this thread and previous threads. Users and members had 30 days to speak there minds when the ad system went into place, then another 5-6 days for this vote. As I've said before many times, we can't please everyone, so no matter what we do or don't do, someone will be unhappy.

    Posted 4 years ago #

25. Sean
    Founding Member

    After 5 days and 25 votes, it came down to 21 votes for yes and 4 votes for no. So as of now, the Kontera ads will stay on the site. The 3 of us admins have a lot to get worked out and some new and improved ways for moderators to interact with things is also coming. I'm not saying that the Kontera Ads will stay forever but they will stay for now... at least another 30 days which would give the system a full two months of use on the site.

    Posted 4 years ago #

26. greg
    Member

    Posted By: sean It was already discussed that if the Kontera ad system made more or less money then Google Ads Sense, we wanted to try and keep user/member experience on the site the top consideration if it stays or goes.

    i don't think that user experience was on everyone's minds as they made their vote, given that an overwhelming majority voted 'yes'. these ads are nothing more than a newer form of popup ad that cannot be easily blocked by simply installing the google toolbar or whatever. granted, others may not share my opinion, but i find it hard to believe that only 1 in 6 people find these ads as a negative impact on user experience.

    Posted 4 years ago #

27. Christopher
    Moderator

    1 in 6 that voted anyway... we have 1895 [source] registered members as of this post, yet in 5 days only 25 of those voted... now some of you (you know who you are) complain pretty much non-stop about the Kontera ads, but surely if the majority of people were against them then we'd have had a much larger number of people voting telling us to get rid of them. But of course, if you think you know what the majority of users want, then who are we to tell you the votes showed otherwise...

    Posted 4 years ago #

28. Gnome
    Moderator

    Christopher: the number of user accounts here is staggering, compared to the number of active designers and forum users.

    Posted 4 years ago #

29. Sean
    Founding Member

    @Greg: I find it interesting and hard to believe that you comment about this but didn't bother to vote. If you would have, it would have been one more vote for no.

    Posted 4 years ago #

30. yugnats
    Member

    Posted By: gregi don't think that user experience was on everyone's minds as they made their vote

    exactly my thoughts greg. what alot of people are overlooking is the result of these ads. who cares if kontera makes a few more bucks by tricking people into clicking- this will just deter people from coming back and actually participating in the community IMO- which i thought was one of the main goals of the new community. i personally think the push for more traffic and/or money is what killed the other 2 sites and i think alot of people (especially the younger ones who aim to please) who are voting on the ads are only thinking of the money and as a lot of our senior members know, money isn't everything.

    Posted By: ChristopherBut of course, if you think you know what the majority of users want, then who are we to tell you the votes showed otherwise...

    lol, chris i find it hard to believe that you think that when under 1.5% of our users vote that that represents the entire community and means thats what users "want"? come'on now. people are generally lazy and i think a low turnout was in part due to the procedure of voting- if a user could just click a vote box i'm sure you would have seen more entries. sure i know the voting system isn't working correctly but maybe these issues (along with the internal mail system) should be looked at first before we add even more features to an already broken site? not to mention that the kontera ads are screwing up the quotes code when you quote a conversation with an ad in it. i dont understand what the big need is for money- correct me if i'm wrong but last time i heard there was more than enough for a contest but i havent seen one here yet (except for the initial one when we started). how much money as of today do we have anyhow? (if you feel better emailing me this go ahead but i personally think it should be available to all members) of course i cant make people vote but maybe theres a better way? to be fair and to represent the entire community a little better i think any vote on something major like this in the future should have a minimum vote participation amount- if the amount is not reached the vote should go to the mods and maybe admins? just an idea i'm throwing out there :) you know, i'd be interested to see the ages of the voters and how long they've been members here- the reason i say this is they may not understand how important the loyal members were in the old communities and how money played such a big role in eventually ruining them. maybe i'm wrong but i doubt all of the votes were from senior members who have seen what has happened at the other 2 sites. how many mods voted? i mean i could name at least a dozen regular users who i suspect voted yes who have just come on board since the new site started (and yes they have a right to vote but their reasoning may not be as sound as some senior members here is my point). and of course we're not trying to tell you we absolutely know better, i myself can only tell you what i feel. what i am saying though is that i think most people here agree the admins appear to want this new system- therefore most users (especially newer users) want to please the admins. maybe i'm wrong but i suspect not.

    Posted By: Christopherbut surely if the majority of people were against them then we'd have had a much larger number of people voting telling us to get rid of them.

    and you would think alot more would have voted yes, as well. i dunno know since i watch (or have access to) the traffic here but maybe people weren't aware of the vote because once they saw the kontera ads they never returned? yes, this is another long post by that nut yugnats but i have to get it out there. maybe you think of me as a troublemaker or maybe i'm your hero but as i said before time will tell what the end result will be...that being said i will respect the vote results but unfortunately it means i myself (and at least 4 others, lol) wont be around as much, if at all...and i'll be sure not to let the door hit me, dont worry :bakie:

    Posted 4 years ago #

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