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Hosting Issues and Concerns

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  1. Sean
    Founding Member

    As mentioned before, Joe has 100% control of the domain name for OD, which he has the power to make name server updates to move the site hosting. Just recently I was able to get tech contact privileges for the OD domain name, so now I can finally make name server changes when we get things sorted. The next order of business is who's name will go on the paperwork and contract for the new hosting if we do move the site to more robust hosting? I'll say it right now, it won't be me. Someone, meaning one person needs to take full responsibility for everything on the hosting side of things. Yes, OD has some money built up to pay for hosting, but that money will run out pretty quickly once hosting is being paid for out of pocket, which based on server and bandwidth needs, it will be around $200.00 USD per month and whatever the site can't cover from ad revenue, the person on the contract will be responsible for paying the bill. Before anyone goes and gets more upset about hosting issues around OD, these things will need to be sorted... including new admins, moderators, etc for the site.
    Posted 2 years ago #
  2. Open reaction donated hosting and a paid server arent the only options. I emailed hostgator about it, and the sent me this link: Host Gator Technology Grant So this is a possibility.
    Posted 2 years ago #
  3. Sean
    Founding Member

    Posted By: conartistdesignsI emailed hostgator about it, and the sent me this link: Host Gator Technology Grant
    @connor: This is a possibility, but again, someone needs to be on the paperwork. Who is going to take 100% responsibility for the site? The person needs to be 18 years or older and a US Citizen.
    Posted 2 years ago #
  4. Posted By: Sean@connor: This is a possibility, but again, someone needs to be on the paperwork.
    I totally agree. It's just this is a Community "Owned"/Driven site, which can't really exist in this situation. It can't simply be an admin because they will come and go just as every one in this site will eventually. It might be best to even have someone at this position. Just to have their name on the papers. Someone that won't be, pardon me, bitched at with every little hiccup, yet does not have absolute control over anything at all.
    Posted 2 years ago #
  5. Sean
    Founding Member

    @connor: OD is technically a community managed site and as it says in the header "community driven". There are so many things that should have be planned and thought out before the site went up back in December 2006, but as most of us old timers know, OD went up in a matter of 2 weeks because of all the things that took place on OWD and a lot of things just came to be and not really planned out beyond that moment in time. For OD to be a truly "community owned" site, things will need to be broken down and restructured, like a business and/ or non profit organization. I don't know who will take all this on, it won't be me as said before, so again, things need to be thought out and discussed before any major things take place if OD is to continue on being a good place for designers and such to hang out, get along and contribute to the community. P.S., thanks for your email Connor. I appreciate it.
    Posted 2 years ago #
  6. greg
    Member

    does OD really need a dedicated box? i've seen more popular sites running on a $50/month VPS. could we see some bandwidth/visitor stats?
    Posted 2 years ago #
  7. Sean
    Founding Member

    Posted By: gregdoes OD really need a dedicated box? i've seen more popular sites running on a $50/month VPS. could we see some bandwidth/visitor stats?
    OD is currently running on two boxes, one for the site and one for the database, but they are not top of the line machines. This information was already provided in another thread including site sites, however I will post it again by tomorrow after I pull updated visitor/server stats.
    Posted 2 years ago #
  8. Sean
    Founding Member

    Real quick, according to Google Analytics for the month of November 2008, OD had the following: 159,192 unique visitors and 668,427 page views. So around 5,000 unique visits per day on average.
    Posted 2 years ago #
  9. :shocked:
    Posted 2 years ago #
  10. Colum McGaley
    Member

    @connor: This is a possibility, but again, someone needs to be on the paperwork. Who is going to take 100% responsibility for the site? The person needs to be 18 years or older and a US Citizen. DAMN! If you want to break down the site into a community driven project, their could be roles that need to be field. here is a example. Head Admin: Foo 2nd Admin: Foo Server Admin: Foo Form Admin: Foo Design Admins: Foo, Foo, Foo and Foo Copy Protection Admin: Foo, Foo, Foo and Foo Site Admin: Foo and Foo Form Mods: foo,Foo, Foo, Foo and Foo Design Moderators: Foo, Foo, Foo and maybe Foo So we could have a list of what people do. And what would help a lot is a better form. But Sean, I think the domain should still be in your name because if the new hoster goes rouge and starts taking the site in a wrong direction you could still be in control of the domain. But other people would be in control of the other parts so not to much responsibly would be on one person. And you could keep your noise out of the site. you would still "own" the site, but other people would be in charge of running it. And maybe a redesign/ recode of the site? With a real form? I don't know, im just spewing a bunch of crap. If the roles are broken up more, put my name in!
    Posted 2 years ago #
  11. Colum McGaley
    Member

    Posted By: SeanReal quick, according to Google Analytics for the month of November 2008, OD had the following: 159,192 unique visitors and 668,427 page views. So around 5,000 unique visits per day on average.
    Damn
    Posted 2 years ago #
  12. Sean
    Founding Member

    Posted By: cthelightBut Sean, I think the domain should still be in your name because if the new hoster goes rouge and starts taking the site in a wrong direction you could still be in control of the domain.
    Need to clarify, the domain name technically belongs to Joe/Lobsterman, not me. I do however have control at the moment to make name server changes to it and that's about it.
    Posted 2 years ago #
  13. Posted By: cthelight@connor: This is a possibility, but again, someone needs to be on the paperwork. Who is going to take 100% responsibility for the site? The person needs to be 18 years or older and a US Citizen. DAMN! If you want to break down the site into a community driven project, their could be roles that need to be field. here is a example.
    What Sean is trying to say is that someone has to be financially responsible. Someone has to sign that they will pay for the hosting, and if the site doesn't make enough money in ads (which it probably won't) they will have to pay the difference. Everyone seems willing to help out, but no one seems willing to put regular money (and their credit score) on the line. I can't say I blame them...I'm one of them. If this were an average site, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. I like this site. The problem is, the community that makes this site what it is are in such unrest, that it looks like a bad investment. I'm not saying that to be mean, I'm saying that so that everyone here knows what people are thinking.
    Posted 2 years ago #
  14. papab30
    Member

    Why not just legaly start a Nonprofit Organization? Create the Open Designs Community nonprofit organization. Make that the legal entitiy that will be on all of the paperwork, web hosting, ad revenue, etc. Then it won't make one bit of difference who's in charge at the time, the ogranization will live on afterwards. Here's a link to starting a nonprofit for some reference. I think that this would be a good way to take the entire burden off of one single person and make this more attrative for others. Also as a side thing, this nonprofit can enter into legal contracts with others and allow it to negotiate deals with partners (web hosting, design companies, etc) where as an individual may or may not want to do that. I think for this community to continue to live this should be the way to go.
    Posted 2 years ago #
  15. Sean
    Founding Member

    Posted By: papab30Why not just legaly start a Nonprofit Organization? Create the Open Designs Community nonprofit organization. Make that the legal entitiy that will be on all of the paperwork, web hosting, ad revenue, etc. Then it won't make one bit of difference who's in charge at the time, the ogranization will live on afterwards.
    That's a good idea, however it still requires people to be legally responsible for things. A non profit has to have people of legal age signing legal documents, an accountant, lawyer, bylaws, etc. It's a huge responsibility to take on. One of the issues with OD is everyone has an opinion, lots of ideas, people want to control things, etc... basically too many Chiefs and not enough Indians so to speak... Like I said above early on in my post:
    Posted By: SeanFor OD to be a truly "community owned" site, things will need to be broken down and restructured, like a business and/ or non profit organization. I don't know who will take all this on, it won't be me as said before, so again, things need to be thought out and discussed before any major things take place if OD is to continue on being a good place for designers and such to hang out, get along and contribute to the community.
    Until these things are sorted out, OD can't and will not be the site it's meant to be.
    Posted 2 years ago #
  16. Posted By: papab30Why not just legaly start a Nonprofit Organization?
    I was under the impression that we were. Or i would have suggested this a long time ago.
    Posted 2 years ago #
  17. Sean
    Founding Member

    Posted By: conartistdesigns
    Posted By: papab30 Why not just legaly start a Nonprofit Organization?
    I was under the impression that we were. Or i would have suggested this a long time ago.
    I had started the process of this a long while ago, but couldn't get the other admins to sign the legal documentation. Once legal documentation came into play, Christopher didn't want to be apart of it and Joe at the time had other things going on. Once again, it requires people to be legally responsible for things and not too many people want to step up.
    Posted 2 years ago #
  18. The way i look at it. The only way this site will work, is if we figure out this non profit stuff and "no one" ones the site. Or one person ones the site entirely, some one we really trust.
    Posted 2 years ago #
  19. arwen54
    Member

    Sean, why does the person need to be a US citizen to get the hosting contract? I don't get that part...I have US hosting for several of my domains and I'm Canadian, as you know
    Posted 2 years ago #
  20. Posted By: arwen54Sean, why does the person need to be a US citizen to get the hosting contract? I don't get that part...I have US hosting for several of my domains and I'm Canadian, as you know
    I think that would be for if we set up a nonprofit thing.
    Posted 2 years ago #
  21. Sean
    Founding Member

    Posted By: arwen54Sean, why does the person need to be a US citizen to get the hosting contract? I don't get that part...I have US hosting for several of my domains and I'm Canadian, as you know
    @arwen54: As Connor pointed out, mostly for the non-profit part of things, but for hosting contracts, you do need to be at least 18 years of age, at least in the US to legally enter into a contract.
    Posted 2 years ago #
  22. Sean
    Founding Member

    Just a quick follow up on Jason/gnome becoming an admin for OD. I talked with him moments ago via email and he doesn't want to be an admin. He is perfectly happy being a moderator. Basically gnome said that he's "in a good place as a community moderator". I respect his decision.
    Posted 2 years ago #
  23. Ainslie
    Moderator

    Of course hosting or a non-profit organisation can be set up just about anywhere in the world... Sean, I was surprised that the non-profit organisation does not already exist after all, you did tell me you had set it up some time ago. There seems to be a few ways OD could survive. 1) You keep the site and the profits - the site goes on as it does now. 2) Set up the non-profit properly and run it properly. maybe somebody could talk to somebody who already runs something similar, i.e. GNU, WordPress et al? This has got to be possible surely. 3) Find sponsorship from somebody else who has the resources to keep it going. Maybe there are more, but like you said, somebody needs to take responsibility. Pity the Admins never trusted anybody enough to share some of the responsibility while people were still willing!
    Posted 2 years ago #
  24. arwen54
    Member

    he's smart, that Jason :)
    Posted 2 years ago #
  25. Sean
    Founding Member

    Posted By: ainslieSean, I was surprised that the non-profit organisation does not already exist after all, you did tell me you had set it up some time ago. There seems to be a few ways OD could survive. 1) You keep the site and the profits - the site goes on as it does now. 2) Set up the non-profit properly and run it properly. maybe somebody could talk to somebody who already runs something similar, i.e. GNU, WordPress et al? This has got to be possible surely. 3) Find sponsorship from somebody else who has the resources to keep it going. Maybe there are more, but like you said, somebody needs to take responsibility. Pity the Admins never trusted anybody enough to share some of the responsibility while people were still willing!
    @Ainslie: As mentioned before (and to you when we talked) I did set things up but as of right now, I'm the only one on the paperwork because Christopher didn't want to sign legal documents and Joe doesn't want to be apart of that either. Also, so far the past 2 years, I've personally paid the taxes on the ad money earned for the site, which is another reason I do not want to be an admin anymore. I am tired of being on the hook for everything. I am also tired of you saying and/ or hinting that I'm running off with the money earned for the site. That is not the case. As for trust issues... I trust people... the domain is in Joe's name... not mine... go bitch and moan to him. Maybe he will give you or someone else the domain name, then you or who ever can run things how you see fit and save the day and site.
    Posted 2 years ago #
  26. Ainslie
    Moderator

    You took that all wrong! I wasn't hinting anything about you taking the money. We discussed that and I decided to believe what you were saying and trust you. I only asked about the non-profit because you did tell me that it was set up. You also told me that you never shared the responsibilities because you couldn't trust anybody. IMHO one of the biggest mistakes you could have made. Maybe you need to take a step back. I made 3 suggestions to see this community survive.
    Posted 2 years ago #
  27. Sean
    Founding Member

    Posted By: ainslieYou took that all wrong! I wasn't hinting anything about you taking the money. We discussed that and I decided to believe what you were saying and trust you. Maybe you need to take a step back. I made 3 suggestions to see this community survive.
    I apologize Ainslie. As you can see, things are tense around here. You made good suggestions. Let's hope for the best.
    Posted 2 years ago #
  28. Ainslie
    Moderator

    Look, lets just chill. I want to help.
    Posted 2 years ago #
  29. bradm81
    Member

    I think I've said before that I don't have any problem with the admins "owning" the site and even taking in some of the profits. At least when they're active as Sean is now, that's a lot of work and should be rewarded. Plus we can see how difficult setting up a non-profit will be. However, that only works when we trust the people that own it. Selling the site is not an option since we saw how that worked out at OWD. So that leaves us either a) continuing as we are, with Sean bowing out, and having absentee admins/owners; b) finding someone in the community to be the caretaker OR c)Find any like-minded websites out there (community driven, open source, etc) that we could partner with to share admin responsibilities.
    Posted 2 years ago #
  30. arwen54
    Member

    you know something? Frank at OSWD had the right idea when he re-designed the site and eliminated the forum. Too bad he deserted that site now, but I can understand why he did it. I've seen so much bitching and moaning here lately and it is no longer a fun place to be. Community-run sites don't work, in my humble opinion...period! There are just too many opinions, too much blah, blah, blah and not enough action. Everyone bitches, and admins like Sean who put an enormous amount of effort in get bitched at. I'm really quite disappointed in Joe and Christopher for not putting their share of time in here. Sean has been left having to deal with all the various personalities in here and it sucks. I don't blame him one bit for wanting to step down as admin. The problem I see now, is who is going to step up to the plate? Whoever it is better have thick skin.
    Posted 2 years ago #

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