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    • CommentAuthorSaad
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2007
     
    Im trying to come up with ways to have sideprojects to put in my portfolio, and Ive come up with this:

    In Transcending CSS, Andy Clarke talks alot about the best ways to get design inspiration. One thing he talks about is finding bits of a site design you like, taking a screenshot, cutting out the part you like, and adding it to a digital scrapbook with other bits of sites you like. That way, when you are stuck on inspiration, you can look to your e-scrapbook and find bits of inspiration, while still being original (since you are only seeing bits of stuff). I was thinking of starting a site that posts the
    scrapbook pages for other people to freely use for there inspiration needs.

    Legal question: Is it legal to do that? As in take bits of screenshots of other people's sites, and actually post it up on the net?

    And what do you think of the idea?
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      CommentAuthorJJenZz
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2007 edited by JJenZz on the 23rd February 2007 at 08:00:43 EST
     
    people screengrab others sites and blog about them all the time. i can't imagine this would be illegal at all... furthermore, if you were to link the screengrabs back to the websites they came from, the site owners would just gain more exposure so it would benefit both parties.

    inspirational sites like cssmania & cssbeauty do this all the time.
    • CommentAuthorSaad
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2007 edited by Saad on the 23rd February 2007 at 08:10:27 EST
     
    I dont mean just a gallery site, but like a site filled with this:

    Scrapbook
    Scrapbook2

    Would that be any less or more interesting then a plain old gallery site?
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      CommentAuthorJeremyD
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2007
     
    thats a really cool idea.
    that'd be more interesting than a plain old gallery site.
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      CommentAuthorauhsoj
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2007
     
    You gotta watch that one. The idea is a very good one to work with, but copyright issues are almost difficult to avoid with this.

    Your only major concern is that you'd have to make sure you provide a solid membership agreement that legally binds the users activities to themselves and that you cannot be held responsible for the distribution of copyrighted materials without permission.

    I know the above sounds very shady, but even those mini images you have in your scrapbook are copyrighted, and posting them up on any web site for any reason constitutes infringement. Especially in the case of a scrapbook design project that would make these available to people; A company could file suit claiming the distribution of a portion of their design could have risked their unique standing with their market. Brand infringement is another issue if you have logos of any kind present in the scrapbook... who's to say someone isn't stupid enough to copy another person's logo and when asked stated that you were distributing it and they didn't know it was copyrighted?

    People do a stack of stupid things. If you plan on doing this, just put together an iron clad membership agreement - and set up some kind of infringement reporting for people who want their materials removed.
    • CommentAuthorSaad
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2007
     
    Thanks auhshoj, i figured there might be some steps to take. as far as membership agreement, that would be assuming I have some sort of membership thing, because i was thinking anyone could download the images. if i did it that way, could i just have a set of rules regarding the material specifying that this is for inspiration, not to steal, and that if you see something that is from your site, you can have it removed?
    • CommentAuthorMattKern
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2007 edited by MattKern on the 23rd February 2007 at 18:42:19 EST
     
    On the other hand, look into "fair use".

    "Fair use is a doctrine in United States copyright law that allows limited use of copyrighted material without requiring permission from the rights holders, such as use for scholarship or review"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

    Especially if you credit the original site - you might be OK.

    Books do it all the time.

    In my completely unreliable opinion (IMCUO?) your idea falls under review.

    Most fields have this problem. There is a fine line between referencing and stealing.

    For what its worth.

    Matt
    • CommentAuthorSaad
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2007
     
    I was thinking that, at the bottom of every scrapbook page, have links to where the bits came from.
  1.  
    Could you display credit to a piece on hover?
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      CommentAuthorauhsoj
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2007 edited by auhsoj on the 23rd February 2007 at 23:19:18 EST
     
    Unless the web site includes commentary or educational articles with these scrapbooks, it does not constitute fair use under US law. The "fair use" clause only makes true exemptions for satirical purposes; the aspect of "fair use" for editorial purposes is extremely shady - there have been rulings against and rulings in favor of defendants in civil suits, and no line drawn to show what exactly constitutes "fair use for editorial purposes".

    The reason why I suggested the agreement and the infringement reporting system is that if his web site does contain media that constitutes infringement, the copyright holder can press charges (which is a LOT worse than just being hauled in for a damages suit because copyright infringement is handled at the federal level) and instead of just walking away owing money, you're going to have to wait 4 years before you can walk anywhere outside of a federal prison.

    Nevertheless, you don't have to flood your web site with "made by *.com" in watermarks through every image and page. And I don't think I have to ask how exactly you would verify that these bits were listed as coming from somewhere they actually came from - I could go on there and put a bit of OD.org and say it came from a subdomain of Microsoft.com.

    The idea is a solid one - and something very unique. I say, "go for it". All you really need is the drive to get it done, the time to dedicate to making it happen, and a few people to answer some questions on subjects (like this one) when you're not too sure.

    I appreciate your design ability and respect the work that you've done (I particularly enjoy your current web site, even tho it's missing content! [I shouldn't say anything... I still have a "I'll be home soon" sign on my site]) and I have faith that any idea you come up with will be a better idea than one I can come up with.

    bigsmile

    I look forward to seeing where this thing goes.
    • CommentAuthorSaad
    • CommentTimeFeb 24th 2007
     
    Thanks auhsoj, youve given me a bit to think about.

    See the thing is, im 16 years old, so getting in a legal mess or even hiring someone to make a membership agreement is currently out of the question. Which then begs the question, although I really do like the idea, and sincerely think it could benefit designer's block, would it be worth the trouble in case someone copies designs and I get sued.

    However, your membership agreement does sound alot better when I think about itwink.

    The thing that I am confused about though is, how can or would I regulate the usage of the scrapbooks? I plan on having each page just one big image, so It is not as if someone can take the code (since it wont be there) or even take the image (since it will be one only).

    I mean, what is the difference between that and someone ripping a design from a gallery site? (real, not rhetorical question).
    • CommentAuthorMattKern
    • CommentTimeFeb 24th 2007
     
    It would be easy to get caught up in the "what if" scenarios as it is a very grey are, but the reality is:

    1) Most designers will want the compliment/exposure/link

    2) If someone does not like what you are doing, you will most likely get a cease and desist letter first before any action is taken. So you take down the image and you are done with the problem (at least for that one site).

    3) You are 16. I assume there is not a whole lot there to get (money) if someone does sue, so no one is going to be bothered.

    I would go for it and let it work itself out as it develops.

    Let me know if you need a hand. It sounds like a neat idea.

    Matt
    • CommentAuthorSaad
    • CommentTimeFeb 24th 2007 edited by Saad on the 24th February 2007 at 16:14:29 EST
     
    Thanks matt for the advice,

    now to picking a name....neutral

    im debating between sublimepulp.com, sublimejam.com, sublimejelly.com or anything else. i was also thinking about screenmash.com but that morphed into the sublime stuff.

    EDIT: also: i am thinking of 2 possible ways to run the site,

    a) i use a cms to upload the scrapbook pages, say like once a day
    b) its a submit-your-scrapbook-type thing, where other people submit there scrapbooks.

    I, for ease, and less hassle am thinking of going with a, but all thoughts are welcome
  2.  
    First of all, I have to say that I like screenmash better than sublime___. Also, I agree with Matt, you won't get sued until they've sent you a cease and desist. They'd look like idiots in court if they did. If you just listen when people want something removed, and keep a list of those sites, so that you don't take anything from them in the future, you'll be fine (in my opinion, and I'm not a lawyer).
    • CommentAuthorSaad
    • CommentTimeFeb 25th 2007
     
    thanks for your advice, im going with screenmash, and will put up the screenbooks myself so I can regulate what goes up and stuff.

    anyway, when it takes off, I will post it up!