Lol Classic!

I think a lot of new designers get caught up in that and end up giving up web design because they can't make a living out of it and takes up so much time for so little return.

The cartoon is so true it hurts.

haha, I get that a lot. You know what looks better in my portfolio? Paying jobs.

oh that is perfect!

I'm doing one free job now. and mark my words it'll be the last. When i do something for free i take forever to do it. and i DONT want to get into the trend of taking forever to do work because im lazy.

very nice analogy, eye-opening

Good read. :)

Posted By: PhiliwilyGood read. :)

yes! I agree.

Posted By: snophaha, I get that a lot. You know what looks better in my portfolio? Paying jobs.

i agree, and...

Posted By: PhiliwilyGood read. :)

i agree, too!

Im not as good as half of you and I've gotten that too

@wfielder:
I noticed that as well...

i know comments like these don't make me a favorite in the community but not being a designer and seeing this from a different point of view i think its valuable to toss my opinion/eperience out there about this free work/required link thing:

lots of small businesses- and large ones for that matter give away services in the hope of return 'paying' work and don't expect *anything* in return. in fact, some of these business give away actual products (which cost money) as opposed to time (which is easier to justify IMO) so there is a direct loss. i do know designers time is valuable as well but i hope you see my point.

2 examples i'm familiar with from my experience in the automotive field would be:

-Gas Station-
when you come in for gas you get your window washed for free and your oil gets checked as well. yes we hope you'll buy oil if you need it but most people don't and alot have there own oil if the car is going through it. the windsheild wash used to clean the window costs money. there is usually an air hose available with compressed air- this compressor costs money to maintain and uses electricity.

according to ultramar canada 70-80 percent of gas station owners in canada are paid on a per dium basis which means the owner makes no money on gas sales.

-Auto Repair Shop-
free estimates on car repair- ever bring your car to a shop where they give free estimates? well if you dont get the work done the mechanic just worked on your car for free. thats right- a highly trained technician with decades of experience and 30k worth the tools in his/her tool box (that they paid for themselves) just spent 45 minutes on your car for free. the mechanic doesn't get paid as most (if not all) large auto repair chains force their mechanics to work on commission !!

i'm sure there are lots of other examples out there in business.

i guess my point is folks sometimes you have to give away stuff to get more business. its just the way it works sometimes and personally i think this CC license, etc is all nonsense especially on some of the poorer designs. i just dont get how you can protect code that is freely available in anyones browser anyhow to be honest. it sure seems to me like web pages were designed to allow people access to the code freely- as opposed to link restrictions, etc?? according to most designers alot of people leave the links no matter what the license anyhow.

REMEMBER: these are just my personal opinions and i would like to hear some valid, non-edited arguements on this issue, lol.

that's the thing, Stan...most of us already give away our templates for free...in my case, templates, WP themes, PhotoImpact presets, graphics, and my time helping people with the free templates on occasion. At some point you have to draw the line and just say "no" or people can take advantage of you.

I had one guy assume that because I don't publicize my client portfolio, I needed to do work for him for free so that "it would look good on my portfolio". He was very surprised to hear that I've been doing this for a living since 1997 part-time. I do admit that giving away templates or any free stuff has brought me business, but I don't feel obligated to do anything for free just because it's expected of me. I do it because I enjoy it and this is my way of giving back.

now there are even wordpress theme 'sponsors', lol.

I think Andreas puts sponsered links on all his designs, easy money I guess. I agree with you about the repetitive resubmissions of similar designs just so people can say they designed a theme as well, but on the subject of this:

i just dont get how you can protect code that is freely available in anyones browser anyhow to be honest

That makes no sense in my opinion, yes anyone can get some css and html code, but can they manipulate the code and understand how it works? I can pick up a canvas and a paintbrush but theres no way I could ever paint a world renowned painting like the Mona Lisa.

Just because you can get your hands on something doesn't mean you can actually use them. Does that make sense?

p.s. not intending to start an arguement here just sharing my opinions like you Stan, I respect you for that, too many people get wound up and take things personally at times, which is annoying more than anything.

Posted By: christopherI think Andreas puts sponsered links on all his designs, easy money I guess.

hmm, i was more referring to the wordpress themes on themes.wordpress.net but thanks for pointing that out. although i had a look at his designs here and couldn't see any sponsor links- where does he put them?

plus, and this is a big plus, Andreas' themes are all public domain which makes a HUGE difference to some people using open-source themes. i mean, i can just change the footer and the whole template as i like and am not forced to leave a linkback- so in that case i wouldn't mind removing a sponsored link.

Posted By: christopherMy personal opinion on this is that I feel the Creative Commons license has been devalued a lot in the past year or so, because of it'spopularitythese days many people think it's the"cool"or"in thing"thing to do. All said and done I bet most people don't even realise what the actual licence entails and they probably only value the"overly popular"aspect of telling people to leave a credit link to their works.

exactly what i was trying to say...perfect!

and no, i dont think its greedy or whatever to ask for a link i just think there are alot of designs/designers thats are, as you said, using(overusing) the CC license for the wrong reason.

IMO this could take away traffic, visitors, etc from TODC since almost all the designs now are CC and the best ones are for sure- thereby causing problems because of forced restrictions on usage/linkbacks, etc.

i think, especially in the case of alot of wordpress templates that license restrictions are being used to force traffic to a designers site who may or may not have even designed or coded the damn thing...or the design is so poorly done it doesn't merit a forced linkback IMO.

ok, its time for bed for me as well

Posted By: yugnats
maybe its because i'm not a designer by trade but what makes no sense to me is how people can complain their code was 'stolen' but yet this 'code' is freely available to anyone that can click 'view source'. i guess for me it all falls under the same subject and seems much ado about nothing :)

It's the same as plagiarism of an article posted to the Internet. Just because I put my story for everyone to read for free does not mean I want them copying paragraphs of it and using it as their own work.

This was actually discussed in the Society for News Design's magazine (newspaper layout/design trade organization) ... how do you know when you're plagiarizing a design, that sort of thing.

You have to basically be led by morals, because the law on this type of new media is really thin.

...although on the other hand a design, i suppose, is probably very similar to a book- the words are freely available(similar to code) but its the way they are arranged that protects them.

i'm wondering then: what sort of laws are there to protect designers? i suppose it would all fall under copyright infringment?

anyhow, i guess i've made my point and i just want to say i am not taking away anything from any of the designers here

thats cool, thanks :)